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 Post subject: Compensating doubles/triples
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:53 am 
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How do people think the low F sides of compensating doubles or triples compare with their "full" double or triple equivalents?

According to the Paxman website, "Full double and compensating horns of the same manufacturing quality are on a par - it is a misconception to think of compensators as inferior". If the latter part of that assertion is correct, and especially given the weight saving with compensators, why isn't the "full" double horn obsolete? As I understand it, there have been two objections to compensators, i.e. intonation and stuffiness (both in relation to the low F side). One of my horns is a Paxman Bb/F compensator (a professional model dating from the late 1970s). I have no complaints about intonation, although in its lower range, the F side does get pretty resistant and a bit woolly.

Is it simply a fact that however high manufacturing quality may be, it is incapable of triumphing over the inefficiency of any compensating design, or are modern designs, e.g. Paxman Mod 33 double or Mod 83 triple superior?


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 Post subject: Re: Compensating doubles/triples
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:12 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:44 pm
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Location: Beckenham, UK
Oh dear oh dear my view is that a compensator BY ITS VERY NATURE is going to be inferior to a full double.
Dare I say that Paxman has got a vested interest in promoting a compensator as it comprises LESS TUBING and therefore saves them approximately £10. 37 'per horn' ( based on the most recent global pricing of brass tube).
:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Compensating doubles/triples
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:16 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:21 pm
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Location: welshpool
Talking of 'Compensators' ( sometimes called 'half doubles' , I wonder why?) I just spotted this one

http://www.halsteadmusic.co.uk/shop/product_info.php?cPath=36_38_42&products_id=834

which looks like a nice little number for somebody wanting a 'Vienna horn without the agony' :lol: and furthermore its' dirt cheap :D


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 Post subject: Re: Compensating doubles/triples
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:34 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:44 pm
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Location: Beckenham, UK
Hmm.. I wouldn't say that £590 is exactly 'dirt cheap'! But, what IS dirt cheap is this 'Lafleur' compnsator, Anborg copy

http://www.halsteadmusic.co.uk/shop/product_info.php?cPath=36_38_49&products_id=830

I don't quite believe it's only £80 or is that a misprint for £180? The Vincent Bach mouthpiece alone costs about £50 new from Paxman's.

Maybe it's a dud? :o

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 Post subject: Re: Compensating doubles/triples
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:51 pm 
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Location: welshpool
Quote:
Maybe it's a dud? :o

ALL Bach mouthpeices are duds, specially a number 12 which is a pathetic, nasty little thing that bites and bruises your chops. :( :cry: :evil:


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 Post subject: Re: Compensating doubles/triples
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:20 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:32 pm
Posts: 200
To answer the OP, the main advantage of compensating designs is the reduction in weight.
This gives a quicker playing response time, the possibility for a lighter and more transparent sound and a less tiring high register (when compared to the equivalent "full" design).

Some compensators do indeed have good low F-sides and should be considered as serious instruments.
However, the low F-sides of the best full doubles also feel significantly better (more even reponse, richer sound, etc) than the low F-sides on good compensators.

Compensators are an interesting choice for solo, chamber and orchestral 1st playing, where the advantages of a "fast and whizzy" horn can outweigh the disadvantages of a slightly less good low F-side.
Obviously for orchestral 4th playing, the choice would be different - it depends what you need to do.

After spending time on several horns (from Bb single to full triple), my personal preference now is for a relatively lightweight full double (2.4 kg) which manages to be both "fast and whizzy" and have a great low F-side. 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Compensating doubles/triples
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:15 pm 
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Thanks, Paul, a very helpful contribution. Would you be able to say which makes/models of compensator have good low F sides in your experience?


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 Post subject: Re: Compensating doubles/triples
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:31 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:35 pm
Posts: 130
Location: Dover, Kent, UK
This Dressel compensator has a wonderful F side..
http://www.halsteadmusic.co.uk/shop/pro ... ompensator

In fact I played this very horn for my audition for 4th horn in the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra in 1966, for the conductor Constantin SILVESTRI and some other wind principal players. The good news is that I 'got the job'!


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 Post subject: Re: Compensating doubles/triples
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:36 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:38 pm
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Location: London
Not many people know that you were 4th Horn in the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra. I certainly didn't. How long did your career as a 4th horn last please?


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 Post subject: Re: Compensating doubles/triples
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:49 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:32 pm
Posts: 200
Quote:
which makes/models of compensator have good low F sides in your experience?

Many of the better compensators I've tried were from small volume makers in East Germany (e.g. Ricco Kuehn).
Players who use Kruspe compensators (vintage and modern) always seem to sound great.
The HF Knopf compensators also seem to be very well regarded.
From more mainstream makers, the old Yamaha compensators (a Krupse copy?) and the Alex 102/102ST (ML bell throat) also play very well.


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