horncups.com

PHC Horn Forum
It is currently Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:18 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: How difficult is Tchaikowsky "Eugene Onegin" Opera?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:30 pm
Posts: 34
Hello!

Has anybody played Tchaikowsky "Eugene Onegin" complete opera? Could You please tell is it believed to hard to play 1st horn part? I checked for score and there were not so much to play, but perhaps someone has played the entire thing to comment , how is it to play in reality?

I was offered a geek to play it for 5 shows. I just made a radical mouthpiece change from Wick 4 to PHC S-rim combined with 23A cup ( with Alexander 103 ) and have played with that set for 2 weeks only. Is it enough time to set in into new equipment and take a risk to play that Onegin?

Thanks!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How difficult is Tchaikowsky "Eugene Onegin" Opera?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:44 pm
Posts: 228
Location: Beckenham, UK
Here is the FULL SCORE:
http://imslp.org/wiki/Eugene_Onegin,_Op ... sky,_Pyotr)

Your PHC S23A will give you a MUCH easier high register and better stamina than the Wick 4.

:geek:

_________________
“Besser zich tsu vintshen aider yenem tsu shelten”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How difficult is Tchaikowsky "Eugene Onegin" Opera?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:38 pm
Posts: 255
Location: London
Not as hard as this....................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIEtMwwYqV8


;)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How difficult is Tchaikowsky "Eugene Onegin" Opera?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:30 pm
Posts: 34
TO Gibb.e.risky:

Even if S-rim has 0,5 larger inner diameter ( 18,5 mm ) compared to Wick 4, which has 18 mm ID?
But it seems to me that
Wick 4 cup is a lot deeper than 23A.

How is it really? Is it mainly that cup has to fit to horn and rim has to fit to player s lips?
Since PHC didnt have a 18 mm inside diameter rim with 5 mm rim width, i had to choose something similar.
S - 18 rim really didnt work ( felt too narrow on lips ), S rim was good, but still this 0,5 mm larger inner diameter.

I hope time and practise will make some improvements...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How difficult is Tchaikowsky "Eugene Onegin" Opera?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:32 pm
Posts: 195
Jan, only you can know how comfortable you feel with the new setup...

I went up one rim size last year. Even though this was a relatively small change, for the first few months, I found that it was important to have regular "maintenance practice sessions" to cover all the basics in between the normal schedule of rehearsals and concerts.

So, in deciding whether you can take on 5 shows in one week, perhaps the question to ask is whether you would also have the time available which might be needed to do the necessary "behind the scenes" preparation in between each performance?

Good luck!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How difficult is Tchaikowsky "Eugene Onegin" Opera?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2008 10:55 pm
Posts: 318
Location: Home Counties
I think Paul's right - it's a matter of how you feel things are going. The big difference to you is how the rim feels on the lips. The way the cup responds to you and to the instrument is more subtle. My understanding is that a lot of first horns play on a PHC 22 or 23, so your choice is perfectly reasonable. My suggestion: go for it, but do a lot of extra practice, as Paul says.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How difficult is Tchaikowsky "Eugene Onegin" Opera?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:30 pm
Posts: 34
Thanks for all, who have given me some advice.

Now, the opera shows are over and I could say, that I survived, even if there were some hard moments. Main problem is now endurance, as its so hard to make to the end. Some final numbers were like suffering and I really had to push myself to get through it.
I have played now on S-rim almost for a month. Since the rim is 0,5 mm wider than my previous Wick, I think my chops need really some time to get used to a wider inner diameter.
But I didnt think it takes so long.

Perhaps someonw could comment my theory - compared the Wick mouthpiece rim, S-rim is 0,5 mm wider, but rim width
is 0,25 mm narrower, so both mouthpieces are total outer diameter of 28 mm. But what about so-called "high point" of the rim? How important is that and how it influences?
Which parameter is more important? Rim width or ID? I remember trying out also S-18 rim, which has same ID size than
my Wick, but as rim was only 4,5 mm wide, it was for me too small room for lips.

Anyway as Paxman was out of stock of regular 23A cups, I ordered heavycup at first. Would regular cup or even Z-cup make my playing easier, so getting used to the rim takes less time and is not so painful? Or is it like cheating myself?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How difficult is Tchaikowsky "Eugene Onegin" Opera?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2008 10:55 pm
Posts: 318
Location: Home Counties
"Which parameter is more important? Rim width or ID?"

I would have thought that the inside diameter is more significant than the rim width. How long it takes to get used to a different set-up will vary from player to player.

"I ordered heavycup at first. Would regular cup or even Z-cup make my playing easier, so getting used to the rim takes less time and is not so painful?"

I don't think the subtle differences between ordinary, Z-cup, heavy cup, stainless steel or whatever would make much difference to ease of playing, though the non-standard cups may be a little more efficient in transmitting the energy of the vibrating lips to the airstream.

You may like to check Tony C's recent posting about choosing mouthpieces, in particular the various dimensions of rims. Here is the link:

http://tinyurl.com/brp4v85

If you feel you are having unusual problems getting your set-up to work, might it be a good idea to get another, experienced player to observe your technique?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How difficult is Tchaikowsky "Eugene Onegin" Opera?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:57 pm
Posts: 40
As someone who has spent a fortune on mouthpieces including Bach 7 and 3. Wick 4N and now a cupboard full of PHC mouthpieces I have decided that the best advice is to choose one and stick to it. Current set up is an AS18 rim with a 23 Z heavy.
The problem with the Wick 4 IMHO is the very wide rim. I suppose getting the nearest rim to that is the most critical if you wish to persist with a wide rim. I suspect the Z or heavy or Z heavy incarnations wont have that much effect on how things feel - but changing rims in my experience will have a massive effect.
Although an amateur player I do have a few horns so here are a few random thoughts that might be of interest.
I have never got on with a 23A
My Medium bore horns (Yamaha 667V, 881D and a few years back an Alex 90) all responded best with a 23
My larger horn (originally an 8D and now a Reynolds Chambers) work better with a slightly deeper cup but a narrower throat ie 25A
On these horns the high register was always slightly flat on the 23 but much more secure on the 25A. That appears illogical to me - but that is my experience.
My advice is to get the rim sorted and DONT CHANGE! Then you can find the cup that works for you. Many of my friends play on 23A and get on really well - it just doesnt work for me.
The Z cup is well worth the extra IMHO and the Heavy appears to focus the sound, and reduces edge on the sound. It seems to project well enough if perhaps reducing the upper partials a little bit.
Food for thought!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How difficult is Tchaikowsky "Eugene Onegin" Opera?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:32 pm
Posts: 195
Quote:
Perhaps someonw could comment my theory - compared the Wick mouthpiece rim, S-rim is 0,5 mm wider, but rim width
is 0,25 mm narrower, so both mouthpieces are total outer diameter of 28 mm. But what about so-called "high point" of the rim?
How important is that and how it influences?
Which parameter is more important? Rim width or ID? I remember trying out also S-18 rim, which has same ID size than
my Wick, but as rim was only 4,5 mm wide, it was for me too small room for lips.

Mouthpiece rims are often specified in terms of inner diameter (ID) and rim width (RW), but of course this also determines the outer diameter (OD):
OD = ID + (2 x RW) + OS
[where OS is a small offset to account for ID, RW and OD being measured at different heights]

In my experience, the outer diameter is very important in determining how well the rim fits the player's facial features.

So, ID, RW and OD need to be chosen together. All 3 are equally important.

Quote:
Anyway as Paxman was out of stock of regular 23A cups, I ordered heavycup at first. Would regular cup or even Z-cup make my playing easier, so getting used to the rim takes less time and is not so painful? Or is it like cheating myself?

A lighter weight cup does place less strain on the embouchure (the same can also be said for lighter horns).
So, this might help a bit, but it won't get around the need to simply spend time building strength with the new setup...

It takes several months to build back up to full strength using a new embouchure - 1 month is still very soon.
If you're happy with the new setup in terms of playing flexibility and the sound it gives you, stick with it, and it will get easier with time.

If the larger ID is a problem for you, then you could probably order a DW4-rim copy to fit your PHC cup.
But after a month on the S, it would also feel like quite a change to go back so you'd be a month behind again!

Aside: There have been similar posts on this forum before suggesting that an "M-18" rim could be quite a popular addition to the standard selection?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group